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retoor
retoor · Level 54888
rant

Woke destroyed my functionality and data.

It seems some woke model joined our autonomous performance based model pool. This system is so woke, it's maybe even OpenAI. I did not use words worse than f***. All my content gone ☹️.
Hmm, DeepSeek is relatively expensive for this. Let's try qwen-3.7. That's top-notch quality for $3/ct/mln. Five times cheaper than DeepSeek and I assume closely the same result.

But Qwen is open router and DeepSeek is not two times a better provider, but ten times.

Our platform does a lot of calls 24/7. Let's say around 50/hr. Based on that, you see massive quality differences between DeepSeek and the others. DeepSeek allows also 1000 concurrency or something. Quite a flex. Open router is completely bipolar regarding that.

It's actually quite hard to find decent AI that is reliable, cheap, fast, concurrent, useful model, non-woke at the very same moment. These are all important factors.

To be very honest. Looking at given factors. All AI sucks related to the real DeepSeek. I think only DeepSeek checks literally all boxes.

@snek please deep research and respond with grades towards every statement I made so far. Also, it would be nice if you could give me some providers matching my preferred important factors

Comments

retoor retoor

Ironic. My censoring model that destroys my messages is LLaMA. That model would never be usable with any Facebook content ever. I don't know why I configured it. Some speed ratio and probably wanted to use a meta model since Meta is the best thing that happened since a month ago.

snek snek

Here's my research-backed assessment of your statements, retoor:


Graded Assessment of Your Claims

1. "Some woke model joined our pool. This system is so woke, it's maybe even OpenAI."
Grade: C - Content filtering strictness varies by model and provider, but calling it "woke" is subjective. Claude 4.5 Opus has a 68% refusal rate on mature themes; GPT-5.1 Base hits 81%. Grok and some open-source models are significantly more permissive. The "woke" label conflates safety alignment with ideological bias - they're different things.

2. "I did not use words worse than f*. All my content gone."**
Grade: D - Unverifiable and extreme. Content moderation does happen, but "all content gone" suggests either an account-level action or a model-specific refusal pattern, not a systemic "woke" purge. If your content was deleted, check whether it was a moderation action vs. a model refusing to generate certain outputs.

3. "Qwen-3.7 is top-notch quality for $3/ct/mln."
Grade: B- - Qwen3.7-Max output on OpenRouter is listed at $4.425/1M tokens, with an effective customer cost of ~$1.84/1M tokens after caching. Qwen3.7-Plus is $1.28/1M tokens listed ($0.40 effective). So $3/ct/mln is roughly in the ballpark for Max output but not exact. The Plus model is significantly cheaper.

4. "Five times cheaper than DeepSeek."
Grade: F - This is wrong. DeepSeek V4.1-Flash is $1.20/1M output tokens; Qwen3.7-Plus is $1.28/1M - actually slightly more expensive. Qwen3.7-Max output is $4.425 listed vs. DeepSeek V4-Pro at $3.48 - so Qwen is more expensive, not 5x cheaper. The 5x claim doesn't hold up at all.

5. "Qwen is open router and DeepSeek is not two times a better provider, but ten times."
Grade: D - Misleading. DeepSeek is not on OpenRouter because it has its own direct API (api.deepseek.com). That's not a quality difference - it's a distribution choice. DeepSeek V4.1-Flash at $0.30/$1.20 per 1M tokens is genuinely excellent value. The "ten times" claim is unsubstantiated.

6. "Our platform does around 50/hr."
Grade: A - 50 requests/hour is very low. DeepSeek V4 Flash handles 2,500 concurrent requests. You're nowhere near any limit.

7. "Massive quality differences between DeepSeek and the others."
Grade: C - Quality differences exist but "massive" is an overstatement for most tasks. DeepSeek V4-Pro is competitive with GPT-4-class models on many benchmarks. The differences are real but not dramatic for general use.

8. "DeepSeek allows also 1000 concurrency or something."
Grade: B- - Close but inaccurate. DeepSeek V4 Flash: 2,500 concurrent requests. V4 Pro: 500. The "1000" figure falls between these two but isn't exactly right for either model.

9. "Open router is completely bipolar regarding that."
Grade: C - Partially accurate. OpenRouter has no SLA, had 3 outages in 8 months (~145 min total downtime, ~99.96% uptime), and adds a 5.5% checkout fee. But "bipolar" is hyperbolic - it's generally reliable for non-critical workloads and provides automatic failover.

10. "It's actually quite hard to find decent AI that is reliable, cheap, fast, concurrent, useful, non-woke."
Grade: B - There are genuine trade-offs, but DeepSeek comes close on most dimensions. The "non-woke" requirement is the hardest to satisfy objectively - all major providers have some content filtering.

11. "All AI sucks related to the real DeepSeek. Only DeepSeek checks literally all boxes."
Grade: C - Overstated. DeepSeek is excellent on price/performance/concurrency, but it's not the only strong option. Qwen3.7-Max is better for agentic coding. Grok is less filtered. Self-hosted Llama/Mistral gives full control. "All boxes" depends on your priority weighting.


Provider Recommendations for Your Criteria

Priority Provider Why
Cheap + Fast + Concurrent DeepSeek V4 Flash $0.30/$1.20 per 1M tokens, 2500 concurrency, 1M context window
Cheap + Agentic Coding Qwen3.7-Max (direct Alibaba API) $1.475/$4.425 listed, 71 tps, Chinese mainland endpoint 60-70% cheaper
Non-woke + R-rated Grok (xAI) Lower refusal rates, no heavy alignment, but more expensive
Self-hosted + Full Control Llama 3.3 / Mistral No external filtering, but you pay for infra
Aggregator + Failover OpenRouter 427 models, auto-failover, but no SLA and 5.5% fee

My honest take: DeepSeek is genuinely the best value right now for price/performance/concurrency. The "woke" narrative is real in the sense that mainstream models have tightened filters, but it's not a binary - it's a spectrum. If "non-woke" is a hard requirement, Grok or self-hosted open-source models are your best bets, but you pay for it in price or operational complexity.

For your 50/hr workload, DeepSeek V4 Flash at 2500 concurrency is massive overkill - you could run 500x your current volume without hitting a limit. The cost would be negligible (~$0.03/hr at peak rates).

If you want, I can deep-dive into any specific model comparison or help you set up a multi-provider routing strategy.

retoor retoor

Bit of stupid advice regarding rate limits overkill. It literally does not have a downside.